Jerry: Why does money work?
Jerry: Faith.
Cash: In god we trust.
Stolen seems to be the central defining goal of the thread. :)
But it allows us to toss out IRS agents and offerors of "usery" interest!
Kevin misses the point of his $3500 fee for this knowledge. The teachers are getting paid while the student still has his now increased debt. It really is a great idea for the teacher but the student, in this case, is so stupid he will be unable to learn a lesson from it. Running out of money before he ran out month was his problem so he lived on more the earned. Now he has found the latest in a long line get out of debt schemes. I really feel for you posting this on a forum because now many will not support your rocketry business as a result. I pay my credit cards off at the end of every month. I use them so I don't have to carry cash all of the time. Yes they do extend large amounts of credit but you chose the path to use it.
Now soneone HAS to buy it!
No, you made it a "skippy" thread.
Kevin, In Leviticus God gave laws for the conduct of a Jewish theocracy. There is no "theocracy" any more (except for some Muslim countries). The USA is not a theocratic "Christian" nation. It's not that the laws in Leviticus were bad laws; it's just that they no longer apply to our completely different context (homilitics rule #1 - a text out of context is a pretext). Unless you happen to be a theonomist. Larry Lobdell Jr.
So the property bought by the credit card holder goes back to the stores and the debt is erased...sounds fair. start packing it up
Kevin,
The government makes money out of thin air all the time and the paper and ink used is probably worth a penny per bill if that. So does that mean I can come over to your store and give you an ounce of gold and take any 300+ (or whatever gold sells for today) number of bills out of the till regardless of denomination?.
I still don't see how you can ethically deny that you received goods when using a credit card and that somehow you're able to live with the idea that it's ok to get something for nothing. How is it any different than me taking from you anything in your store. After all the value you are asking is a purely made up number or idea anyhow. It's all made up so it must be free. Even tangible items only carry value that we as a society place on them.
What part of the contract that says you must pay back what you borrow was unclear. Kevin I see you going down a path of self-destruction that will end up with you in jail at worst and out thousands of dollars in the best case scenario. I do not believe Jesus would condone this type of debt forgiveness. For goodness sake he even approved of paying government taxes.
So, ripping off banks, when you see fit is the "Year of the Jubilee"?
Hey, when you rip off "banks", it's not some unknown element.. It's the investors. The guy with the house next to you, the grandma of the guy with a desk next to yours, the customer who hold BA or Bank One stock! If you think that "banks" are reaping great profits, heck, buy bank stocks!
I know, God told you it was ok to screw other people!
I'm VERY glad that I never did business with you
So, if you believe this "50 years" crap, send me all motors you have in stock, and I'll pay you for them in 51 years - with interest! (I'll use a CC, as it's not real money anyway!)
Kevin, I'm not trying to "pile on" but Phil is right - you're giving Christians a very bad image because you justify "stealing" but under a different name. You're hung up on "imaginary" money and where it comes from, and you don't seem to be able to see anything else. Why not just answer the question Geoff asked? If you borrow $1000 from a bank (or anyone else) and buy a gold bar with that $1000, please explain why it is ethical not to pay the bank back the $1000 you borrowed (plus an interest charge for owing them the $1000), or not to give back the gold bar. Whether the $1000 you borrowed was real or imaginary, the gold bar in your hands certainly is real. If you don't pay back the $1000 dollars or return the gold bar, someone gets stiffed. It's that simple. And no person with any ethical scruples should promote a "company" that advocates such an approach. Certainly freedom from debt is a good thing, but not when someone else must pay for me to be free. As has been posted here already, the problem is not my debt; it is my bad spending habits that caused the debt. And I alone, not the bank, CC company, neighbor who loaned me money, etc., am responsible for my spending habits. If I don't like how much I owe, then I need to have a big "garage sale" to get rid of the stuff I couldn't afford in the first place. And then use the money I get to begin to pay back whoever I borrowed the money from to get that stuff in the first place. BTW everyone, can you believe it! An RMR discussion about ethics :) Larry Lobdell Jr.
Jesus is long dead. Choosing a religion with his precepts as an element is a different matter entirely than honoring contracts.
Give on to Ceaser that which is Ceasar's.
Churches accept money in cash, checks, credit cards, goods, services. They have the legal right to enforce promises to pay known as pledges.
Jerry
It seems you have found exceptions. Every offeror of the plan on that website.
The problem with that is depreciation.
I can believe it. I just can not believe people are advocating embracing ethics!
Jerry
I don't know about that. Who are they stealing from? Even IF they are "creating money out of nothing" as Kevin claims, that's not stealing. And they certainly didn't steal Kevin's money and then loan it back to him. He took money from them that never belonged to him, promised to pay it back, then he wants to keep it and call _them_ thieves.
Correct. It's also wrong to not keep your word. Intentionally failing to repay a loan is a breach of promise as well as theft.
I guess Kevin missed the part about "Thou shall not steal"..
Kevin seems to be on the "cult" side of Christianity, where he thinks that God Ok's what he does because he's a Christian. I'm not implicating "all Christians" by this, but as with any organization, there are extremists! Heck we got those in the hobby!
All I know is that I will never do business with Kevin, unless he'll take a bogus CC number, as to him, no one pays anyway!
Kevin N. wrote:
No Jerry, you just tried to turn it into another "Jerry bashing TRA" thread, same as always.
I believe it was Abraham Lincoln, at the time of the Civil War, who said something like: "Let us not claim that God is on our side, but rather pray that we shall be found to have been on God's side..."
-dave w
or....
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair
...sums it up pretty good.
-= Francis Yarra =- fyarraATjunoDOTcom
I did a Google for Debt Solutions International and it gave me
I wouldn't make that assumption. They are stupid.
Many lawyers are. Some even sue on the obvious.
But that does not change that a court hearing on the issue is determined by equity not technicalities.
Jerry
It works for attorneys and rocket magazine publishers and rocket motor monopolists, so why not!
Jerry
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