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Crossdressing is wrong... This I know. Cause the bible tells me so.

And how exactly was that? You don't mean that much-mistranslated and vastly edited collection of musings by a pack of desert nomads, do you?

I'd expect as much accuracy from People magazine. Hearsay at very best.

Uh, next time he does that will you bring a tape recorder? Really, that's all I need to become a believer...

Most likely; on several levels. Personally, I think Kevin Smith's movie "Dogma" was the best bit of religous speculation I've seen in decades. Maybe I should start worshiping Alanis just to be safe; or at least buy more of her records.

You must mean the Bible, the book that talks about the Great Flood and the ark which has been proven to be true, that said that in 2000 years Israeli would be restored as a nation, the one that predicted Jesus hundreds of years before His birth, the one that predicted to the year the 420 years of Jewish slavery, the one whose book of Psalms was found in 1948 and that match exactly an ancient manuscript 2500 years old, the one that talks about in the last days knowledge would increase, the book that some have tried to ban and destroy for hundreds of years but couldn't, the book that predicts Jesus' return and the end times? That book?

I hate to tell you this but people really do read the Bible and get answers from it. All the versions I am aware of are very accurate and do justice to the oldest manuscripts we know of.

A million years after People magazine and this earth are dust, the word of God will still exist.

Like I said He speaks to my mind by His Spirt, not with a audible voice. If He did, it would probably scare me half to death. And by the way, that wouldn't make you a believer. Even if one were to return from the dead, people will still not believe.

Joe C.

then jesus is wrong since he wore a dress

so was every other christian through most of history untile VERY recent modern times.

ALL cross dresses according to you

Anything else you want to toss in my direction ?

Can you imagine what would happen if I got involved in this thread? The world might implode.

Jerry

Actually the flood DID in fact happen.

just not as the bible describle. at one time the earth was pretty flat no mountains and such. huge water tables underground and the atmosphere saturated with water.

the water erupted at supersonic speeds and a crack (they believe this is where the midatlantic crack came from) around the world encircling it.

it did not rain for 40 days and nights. more like 40 years (got to find where I read all this was a fascinating read)

here is the kickier.

there would have been no arc and in fact IIRC no LIFE of any substance when this happened BILLIONS of years ago :-)

just a neat tidbit. MAN got to find where I saw that. think it was a discover channel show some time ago etc..

Chris Taylor

We're OK for now Jer. Now, if we'd toss Dunbar into the thread as a secondary initiator, then, yeah, critical mass..

BTW, how's our buddy doin'? Is he in jail yet?

tah

Dunbar went to jail. Not sure about his release date but I suspect he got out early since it was a non-violent crime.

Wow, Rick, I am impressed. You have put a lot of thought and engery into this. I checked out the site you mention and looked at Noah's ark for the heck of it. They mention that the boat would never float yet I have seen models of the ark floating very nicely. The author of your site said it wouldn't survive the waves and storm of a flood. Actually the Bible just said it rained, it doesn't say anything about a huricane. All the ark had to do was float. It also mention that there was not enough volume in the ark to hold all the fish! Fish? Why would Noah need to save the fish from a flood? It also doesn't address the rather large boat that looks like the ark on Mt Ararat in turkey taken by satellite or how almost every culture in the world has a flood story.

I could also sites that refute your claims such as:

Joe C.

Rick Dick>>

Not that I'm *that* curious, but what were the charges?

tah

There was debate on rmr at the time. His messages disappeared right then so searching should be trivial.

Jerry

snip

BTW, did you know the moon is only 60 miles away? Just ask the Flat Earth Society.

Randy

hereeeee we go again

anyway below

Our rockets are thousands of times more powerful than the space shuttle. on a power to weight ration the shuttle is pathetic.

because SCALE determines these factors. SURE a model will work. balsa wood is one of the strong (weight to strength ration) woods on the planet. ANYTHING model size can work. I have planes that work fine as models but would NEVER work if you tried to scale them up.

try it. built a boat the size of the ark using material and technology of the time. try it.

Neither did he. but there WILL be waves and there WILL be winds. LOTS OF it and on a massive scale. you can NOT add that much water WITHOUT IT.

have you ever been out on the ocean ? even during relative calm ?

clearly you either only glimpsed through it or you lack ANY relevant knowledge about fish. temperature changes averaging just a few degree's can WIPE out entire species of fish. most fish are NOT tolerant to changes in there water.

also just about every fish on earth is STRICTLY fresh or salt water. NOT BOTH. almost ALL OF THEM would die VERY quickly (minutes or hours) upon insertion into the opposite water type. thats why.

which no one has seen to date. satelite photos don't count. wanna know why ? where is the face on mars ? see what I mean. till you DIG IT UP and SHOW it to me etc.. etc..

then you still have the problem of there is no way its BIG ENOUGH to perform the task mandated of it and NO WAY 8 or so people could PERFORM the tasked asked of them inside of 24 hours.

I only spent a few minutes here but I could not find one valid utterance to invalidate anything he posted. I found a lot of crap but seriously if there is something relevant here LINK to it not to the site main page. give me specifics.

I see no proof here ?? point it out please

I see no proof here either. there are plenty of clear examples of evolution. even LIVING today there are clear examples of evolution.

where we lack examples is of overall gradual evolution on a large scale. I personally do not think evolution is gradual. I think its in leaps and bounds. I think one critter is born different it survives and the old simply die out. no gradual transition.

this link does not disuade evolution at all. in fact it seems to support it it simply says that the CAUSE Of the evolution that is seen was caused by another reason and they do not know the reason ?? so what ?

some more examples of evolution ? common viruses evolving to be RESISTANT to antibiotics ?

what a crock ? the other site states some of the same things and shows why using them as evidence is wrong. did you not even read the other site specifically the part on Nebuchadnezzar?? guess not.

just because some parts of the bible make sense does not mean its the word of god.

Wash your hands after getting them dirty.

this is fact. this makes sense. this is clearly a good thing. did god give me those words ? are they proof of god ? simply stating something that happens to be fact ?

so one of the cranks who wrote a part of the bible knew of these things (probably after some babies died and it came to be known after many deaths of bloody messes that HEY it works best on the 8th day so lets put that in there.

THIS by the way is how most of our early knowledge was formed. by accident. by simply observing what happens.

like one say some guy discoveres a point on a mans leg that if its bleeding and he pushes there it stops or slows the bleeding. HEY he just discovered a pressure point so he goes and writes it down.

woopee. nothing GODLY there.

I still away you to show me one shred of proof in god. the BIBLE is not proof of god by any vague dismal stretch of the imagination. the bible is a declaration that there is a god. NOW show me the PROOF if this declaration.

the common responce by one who poses an argument they can not win. I choose NOT to agree to disagree because I do not agree with it.

Chris Taylor

Well, if you don't want the freshwater fish to die, they need to not be dumped into the salt water of the oceans. If the land is covered by water, worldwide, then the salt water will flow *everywhere*.

We still have trout and other freshwater fish, so they weren't all dumped into the oceans....

I notice you also completely failed to respond to the geological evidence against the flood....

The fact that almost every culture has a flood myth is great evidence for the biblical flood myth being merely a retelling of earlier flood myths. Much of the biblical mythology has clear roots in earlier mythological tales from cultures that pre-date the Hebrew culture, such as various Babylonian tales or the Epic of Gilgamesh.

I was all set to dig through these to find the specific refutations you were referring to, as I was starting to really enjoy the intellectual excercise provided by the discussion, but then I saw this:

Fair enough. I understand that, like most collections of mythological tales, the Bible serves a valuable societal purpose, and does provide comfort to many people. I would not deny you, or anyone else, the freedom to excercise your right to believe, or believe in, anything you want.

While I will agree that the Bible, in all of its various versions, makes for interesting, and in many cases, inspiring reading, I will draw the line there, for now. The bible tells many fascinating tales of adventure and intrigue, set in supposedly historical contexts, in very much the same way as the tales of Shakespeare, Homer, or Virgil. Yet, while all of these told many tales, ostensibly chronicling historical events, none of them ever let the truth get in the way of telling a good story.

I am particularly impressed, actually, that the level of discourse has remained civil and thoughtful; religious discussions, especially online religious discussions, have a tendency to degrade rapidly into flame-fests. I thank you for allowing me a chance to further explore and question my own beliefs in the context of a civilized, if spirited, discussion.

As you said, we shall agree to disagree, and I thank you and wish you the best. Should you wish to continue this discussion at a later date, I would like that, although perhaps we could find another, more appropriate venue than a rocketry newsgroup....

Sincerely,

- Rick "How far off topic are we?" Dickinson

That is the bottom line isn't it?

And as far as being off topic, not so much considering TRA and NAR practice the "permit myth" so it has a modern analog.

ie NOT digital!

Jerry

Kinda like, "there is no DOT enforcement of improper shipping paperwork use myth".

Fred

Not even close and your troll is transparant.

So Jerry, more whine with dat 40K DOT cheese??