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But he is not in denial!

But that is humble. Kevin and Ray and Dave Grayvis are nothing if not not humble :)

I'm going to regret this, based on the tone of your comment - but I'll respond anyway:

Yes, I DO make them up myself. Based on my experience and observation of how society works. Mostly because I trust my judgment far more than "His", who has allowed so many horrors to be committed in his name. Reading the bible, we'd get more rational behavior from Alanis Morissette.

Seriously, though, I find it kind of amusing that someone would think there could be no moral sense without a God. The "Golden Rule" doesn't require divine inspiration; it's simple logic and common sense.

Mankind has spent a lot of time banging out rules over the millennia; while a lot of them have been extreme and have to be disregarded, taken as an average there probably IS a cultural consensus of what is right and wrong.

Bwahahahaha, bwahahahahahahaha, BWAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!

That's the funniest crap I heard all day.

Silly silly man.

Pax

Oh wait, you were serious huh?

The US dollar is a faith based currency. It not based on gold or anything tangible. Nevertheless, it is the most trusted currency in the world. Indeed, many people worship the almighty US dollar, and persue it at all costs.

Jerry, who is your bank that gives out all these uncecured loans? ;)

For more fun, assume that one is a a well regarded buiness and personal customer of a bank. Explain to the loan officer that you want to borrow $100,000 or so to invest in that same banks stock.

Hiya Kevin,

I have done business with you before and found you to be very honest and professional.

With that said, here is my advice:

Stay with the Hobby Shop, or sell it and get a full-time job working in a way where you have job/income security. Having that GUARANTEED paycheck, saleried or contractor, every two - four weeks is a hell of alot better than risky "pie in the sky" promises. You want to take risks, then play the lottery with your disposable income. Trust me, I learned the hard way and you are too nice a person to have to learn the same.

Now I need to educate the group about the phrase, "There is a sucker born every minute".

P.T. BARNUM DID NOT, repeat, DID NOT COIN THIS PHRASE.

The phrase came from the man behind the, 'Cardiff Giant Hoax'. Now most of you being "Rocket Scientists" [sic] are probably too busy doing engine static testing or computational fluid dynamics on your airframes, and over looked this piece of trivia. So for those who enjoy learning new things, here is a link to a website devoted to the Cardiff Giant Hoax: Cardiff Giant Hoax

So now that we ALL know, lets not show our ignorance on this matter and get back to showing our ignorace of Jerry Irvine, and the way in which this news group has gone to "hell in a hand basket" over the last few years ... now there is some interesting commentary.

Come on, I am sure there is some other father who hates his son for taking his rocket motors ... I am sure Jerry can find some other thing that goes bump in the night ... I am sure republicans are evil, and demacrats are communists ... I am sure the BATF is out to get us all and we should be allowed to fly anything we want, as high or dangerous because it is our birth right; even though terrorists can use those same items to kill a few more thousand Americans ... but who cares, we all want our P motors and if it kills a few tens of thousand more Americans ... who cares, because rockets are more important than national security and human life ...

Well back to the shadows ... I just read this group for amusement ... not for knowledge ...

So anyone who believes god (or God) is unknown and probably unknowable cannot have a valid value system?

Interesting (and disturbing) point of view.

I knew that when I posted it, but I also knew that most folks still associate the phrase with Mr. Barnum.

Ah, now this is something I did not know. I have heard of the Cardiff Giant, but never knew that the man behind it was the originator of the phrase commonly attributed to Barnum.

I sure hope you're joking. High power rocket motors being used by terrorists to kill thousands of Americans?? Puh-leeze!

Kevin,

One more things ... why oh why did you waste your time, energy, and bandwidth posting that to this news group. You should have known it would turn into a "hot potato" issue.

Never make yourself a target when you are running a business ... people are very trite, and envious. They will do their best to tear you down, as opposed to building themselves up.

Something my father told me man years ago:

"If you have something that other people can't have, they will do their best to make sure you don't have it."

Unfortunate human nature. Don't post here ... just read the funny crap and occassional interesting postings here ... there was an interesing post a few weeks back that had a .pfd file of an old amature rocket group's journal.

I printed the .pdf file out and bound it into a notebook. Fantastic information. I learned more in that one posting then all the thousands of meaning less - comical postings over the last 3 - 4 years!

Don't take this group or the people here seriously and all will be fine.

Yes, but that in itself was not his sin. He was supposed to get his brother's widow pregnant, but at the last moment he withdrew and "spilled his seed". By doing so, he failed to fulfill his promise and violated the woman's trust. That was his sin. Unfortunately the Catholics missed the whole point, focusing on the "spilling of seed" rather than the breaking of a promise, and thus ended up with their belief that using a condom to prevent pregnancy is sinful.

Hello Ray,

Well lets see how could a high powered rocket motor be used to kill human beings and spread terror to a population:

1)Enough slugs in a sealed container can be used as a bomb; pipe, barrel, ect..

2)There are radioactive materials in the form of powders that can easily be aquired from medical and industrial equipement found at surplus, and slavage yards. Oh, there is no offical government tracking of decommissioned equipment that uses radioactive materials. Weights, scales, lasers, medial imaging, x-ray producing tubes and equipment ... the list goes on and on.

3)The above can be used as a terror weapon to send major populations into panic, riots, looting, and DEATHS ... deaths sometimes happen when there is looting, fires, and shooting ... maybe things have changed ... don't know.

4)High power rockets could be set up outside Washington D.C. at a public park and balistically launched against the White House, Capital, or other high profile targets. Who cares if they did any real damage ... the fact that they could be setup, deployed, and employed would cause MAJOR damage to public safety confidence and cause our stock markets to fall hundreds if not a few thousand points. Its only money; pensions, retirement 401k ... who cares ...

5)Rockets can be used to carry chemical and biological wareheads. Bubonic plague, HIV, Seryn Gas, and a WHOLE host of other toxic, "BASEMENT MADE" gases, liquids, solids, could easily be deployed with the use of rockets.

I could go on, but we all here know, screw human life and public/financial integrity ... as rocket fun is vastly more important.

Sorry Ray, but I have personally given up rockets ... boaring as hell and cost/excitement ratio sucks big time. Give me an electric powered high-performance sailplane that I can take out and enjoy for hours an afternoon for just pennys a flight (cost of charging the flight and radio packs) compared with tens, scores, or hundreds of dollars for 30 seconds of thrill and not to mention the time to drive out to a remote location, plus the cost of gasoline; I just walk down to my local park with my electric flyers in tow :) Don't need goverment oversite to fly Zagis ... or maybe I am breaking some "flying wing park flyer law"? Jerry?

Besides, we all know (but some won't admit) Model Rocketry is a dying (dead) hobby. Fewer and fewer kids play with rockets. Most of them are too busy playing with Playstation 2 and XBOX console games. Toys "R" Us used to carry isles of model rockets back in the 70s. Last time I checked the local TRU, there were like 4-5 model rocket products on the shelf and a spattering of engines ... its a dying hobby. The only reason it is even remotely afloat today is because

30+, 40+, 50+ something year old people are "rediscovering" model rocketry.

I order for the hobby to continue, kids have to be brought into the hobby ... sorry like I said most of the kids, not yours, but the others out there in the universe outside of your own, have LITTLE to NO interest in model rocketry. The public doesn't care about manned space flight. Hell, most people didn't know nor cared about the crew of Columbia until they died ... space shots of any kind don't make the news for the most part ... unless the vehicle explodes in a "live at

5" fireball; public and political interest has wained concerning model rocketry, scientific, and man space flight. The average joe and jane, that makes up 99.99 percent of the nation population doesn't care about rockets ... ACTIVE members of organized model rocketry number in the thousands nationwide ... let me be genrous. Lets say there are 100,000 active NAR and TRA members (which there are only a few thousand in reality). The population of the United States is a bit shy of 300,000,000. So 100,000 / 300,000,000 * 100 percent = 0.03 percent of the population cares about rockets ... and that number is easily 10 to 100 times lower ... people really don't give a rats ass about NH4ClO4 and a rubber binder .. .they really don't despite what we want to think in our own "rocket" minds.

I realize that for some of you, you will respond with nasty typical flames, but I don't care ... so don't waste your time. Go back to telling us about your sons who are drug dealers. Tell us more about how we have a birth right to stock up and fly any size rocket motor our credit cards can handle. Jerry tell us how the world is against you and how if we let you, you will save us all from the Philistenes and take us to the promised land of rocket heaven ... like I said ... this group is but a reflection of what has become of model rocketry ... sad but true.

Its a joke ... and this new group is but a mere reflection of it ... damn that felt good ... for the last year or two I wanted to say something about the crap here and I held my breath ... boy it sure feels good getting it off my chest :)

I say damn logic and pass the 98 mm slugs to all who can get authorization on their visa, mastercard, or american express cards! That would solve all our problems ... and let Jerry sell USR motors. I heard he has his mother sitting in the middle of the hanger with a big mixing bowl stirring propellant, and Jerry, er um, Skippy has alot of bondo he will use to fill those spent single use casings that he can then repack and resell ... go go skippy!

Vince,

I'm sorry, but that's not even in the same galaxy of logic! You and I have to work for every dollar that goes through our hands. The credit card companies, type in 4 or 5 figures on their computer (in your or my name) and THEY'RE instantly that much richer, not you, not me.

Kevin

"4" Kevin Nolan Countdown Hobbies;

"3" NAR 16148 7 P.T. Barnum Square, Bethel, CT 06801-1838 "2" TRA 0943 Orders: 800-810-0281; Info: 203-790-9010 (voice/fax) "1" NARCONN/CTRA snipped-for-privacy@cs.com "0" NRHSA "Put Fun & Excitement in Your Life"

Not according to the 500+ who saw Him for 30 days AFTER His death! Not according to everyone who has had a relationship with Him since. How many people would have allowed themselves to be tortured to death for a hoax?!

Kevin

"4" Kevin Nolan Countdown Hobbies;

"3" NAR 16148 7 P.T. Barnum Square, Bethel, CT 06801-1838 "2" TRA 0943 Orders: 800-810-0281; Info: 203-790-9010 (voice/fax) "1" NARCONN/CTRA snipped-for-privacy@cs.com "0" NRHSA "Put Fun & Excitement in Your Life"

PLEASE read the article on MSN Money Central (4/19) titled: "Watch out for debt-elimination scams." Yes, I read the drg web page and regardless of what they claim, it seems to me DSI fits what the article is about. Larry Lobdell Jr.

Here's the URL to the article Larry mentions:

Heck, that amount would just about cover the rent on a shop, if I had that and another, oh say $10,000 I could once more set up my own Hobby Shop, after all, I still have my own Calif. State Sales Tax Permit for a Hobby Shop.

Or for 1/2 of that I could set up an Internet shop and mail out everything.

No, it is supposed to be backed by something finite with tangible value, like silver and gold. That prevents inflation from silently robbing the citizenry, and banks from making money out of nothing, which seems to be what this thread really boils down to. The Federal Reserve (a private organization of bankers NOT connected to the Federal Government) changed everything about the US monetary system, for the worse in my (& many others') opinions. Even the U.S. president who signed them into legitimacy regretted it on his deathbed.

As we can see from most of these posts on this subject, the majority of people are simply sheep who go along with what they're told by the powers that be, never researching history or caring about truth.

Kevin

"4" Kevin Nolan Countdown Hobbies;

"3" NAR 16148 7 P.T. Barnum Square, Bethel, CT 06801-1838 "2" TRA 0943 Orders: 800-810-0281; Info: 203-790-9010 (voice/fax) "1" NARCONN/CTRA snipped-for-privacy@cs.com "0" NRHSA "Put Fun & Excitement in Your Life"