(AD) Countdown Hobbies Debt Elimination Offer

AZ Woody wrote:


I believe it was Abraham Lincoln, at the time of the Civil War, who said something like: "Let us not claim that God is on our side, but rather pray that we shall be found to have been on God's side..."
-dave w
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But that is humble. Kevin and Ray and Dave Grayvis are nothing if not not humble :)
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Amen!
Kevin
"4" Kevin Nolan Countdown Hobbies; http://countdownhobbies.com "3" NAR 16148 7 P.T. Barnum Square, Bethel, CT 06801-1838 "2" TRA 0943 Orders: 800-810-0281; Info: 203-790-9010 (voice/fax) "1" NARCONN/CTRA snipped-for-privacy@cs.com "0" NRHSA     "Put Fun & Excitement in Your Life"
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Larry,
I have gone over this several times, and will do it one more time for anyone who cares to understand. Obviously, many (most?) either don't want to understand or have been programmed to accept whatever they're told by authorities. All I can tell them is read, dig, research, find out what is really going on.
Now, if the "bank" monetizes your signature for, let's say $5000, they have just created $5000 in their own computer. When you buy something, they pay the merchant with "money" that never existed. You have to pay that "debt" (maybe with interest) in real money you earned by work. That created money, if it is to belong to anyone, should belong to the person in whose name it was created. The credits are yours and mine, not the banks!!!
Kevin
"4" Kevin Nolan Countdown Hobbies; http://countdownhobbies.com "3" NAR 16148 7 P.T. Barnum Square, Bethel, CT 06801-1838 "2" TRA 0943 Orders: 800-810-0281; Info: 203-790-9010 (voice/fax) "1" NARCONN/CTRA snipped-for-privacy@cs.com "0" NRHSA     "Put Fun & Excitement in Your Life"
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Gosh, I can't beleive I got into this. Maybe it's because I think I can help Kevin, who seems like a nice guy, out of too much trouble. So, let's try the math picture and see if it helps.
Kevin asks bank to "create" some money in his name, where money never before existed. They give $5,000 real money to pay for the motorcycle that Kevin just bought.
Bank really has zero, so does Kevin to start. The motorcycle dealer has a $5,000 dollar bike.
Kevin + motorcycle dealer - motorcycle dealer + $5,000 Bank -5,000
Kevin, If you don't pay the bank the $5,000 that they paid on your behalf to the dealer, then you are stealing.
steve
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NO!!!!! That so-called "money" was created on a computer. It isn't real money. Watch:
$500,000.
There. I just made a half-million dollars! Problem is, I can't spend that "money", but they can. But they can't make it without monetizing my or your signature, which SHOULD make it my or your money.
Everyone here needs to read Modern Money Mechanics at: http://www.drg.cc/cgi-bin/oxrep.pl?page=modernmoney&id=jane
Kevin
"4" Kevin Nolan Countdown Hobbies; http://countdownhobbies.com "3" NAR 16148 7 P.T. Barnum Square, Bethel, CT 06801-1838 "2" TRA 0943 Orders: 800-810-0281; Info: 203-790-9010 (voice/fax) "1" NARCONN/CTRA snipped-for-privacy@cs.com "0" NRHSA     "Put Fun & Excitement in Your Life"
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That's one heck of a massive link... Can we make a deal? If I spend the time to read through all of that and explain to you why it is wrong, will you have a dialog on the topic? So far you have not engaged any of the factual threads here...
I know that you feel under attack form the RMR crowd, but we are all just trying to save the best rocketry vendor in the northeast from further debt or, possibly worse!
--Jim

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So how is this one any different than the same scheme as shown at http://www.monticelloalliance.com , except that they have put a very heavy religious bent to the whole scam? Read their site and let us know if it isn't exactly the same scam in different wrapper...and those folks *do* also talk about "erasing your mortgage".
You are being (have been?) taken, and they are hoping that you can get a whole bunch of other suckers to fall for it before it all collapses, leaving you and other 'distributors' holding the bag, legally and financially.
BTW, I found *that* site by doing a Google search for "monetize your signature" (with the quotes); without the quotes you wind up getting a whole slew of other scams.
--
Mike KD7PVT
NAR #70953 - Sr/HPR Level-1 ~ BEMRC - NAR Section #627
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<< NO!!!!! That so-called "money" was created on a computer. It isn't real money. >>
You're right. It's not real money, it's credit, and it only works because they get the money when you pay them what you owe.
<< There. I just made a half-million dollars! Problem is, I can't spend that "money", but they can. >>
You didn't create anything, you merely typed numbers onto a computer. Those numbers have no value, and can't be spent to buy anything. The only way a bank can do what it does is by people paying the bank what the money they borrowed.
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snipped-for-privacy@cs.com (Kevin Nolan) wrote:

Not precisely.
They cannot spend it at all.
They can ONLY loan it. And they have to guarantee it!

Disagree should.

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Careful he will call you a sheep! When the name calling starts you have allready lost any hope of rational discussion.
--
Chris Pine

www.penartists.com
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I know.
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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snipped-for-privacy@cs.com (Kevin Nolan) wrote in message

Kevin, I agree you have gone over this several times, but it's not because RMR readers don't want to understand. It is because you haven't answered the only question that really matters and we are still confused about what you personally believe. You have used the $5000 the "bank" created for you and bought some object with it. Do you, or do you not, think it is moral and ethical (right, OK, etc) for you to keep the $5000 object, and not pay the bank (CC company) the $5000 with which you bought the object? Don't confuse the matter with other explanations about where the money comes from, etc. The question is straight-forward and direct. Your choices are "YES" or "NO." All who read this forum want to hear your answer. Larry Lobdell Jr.
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Hey Gang!
Check this load of crap out...
http://www.freeandclear.us /
Click on the "fraud" link
Pretty funny. They prey on people not educated enough to know what they are being told is BS. Read the accounting on the home, the part about the bank ending up with $190,000 profit on your home after the sell the note.
They prey on the fact that the reader will be too stupid to do the accouting. Leaving out facts in the hopes that they will not know the right questions to ask.
Here is some of this load.....
DID YOU GET WHAT YOU BARGAINED FOR?
Here are some serious questions that the above scenario of a loan transaction naturally raises. Unless you have been living near a nuclear power plant for the past twenty years.
PRIMARY QUESTIONS
1.. Does the bank raise an asset to itself, in addition to the liability? 2.. Was this disclosed in the contract? 3.. Was I compensated for the bank using my note, and my signature, to raise this asset to the bank? 4.. Was this account containing the asset for the bank, opened before the bank received my note? 5.. When I pay off the loan, who gets the asset the bank raised to itself, with my note? QUESTIONS DERIVED FROM PRIMARY QUESTIONS
1.. Is, there fraud Here? 2.. If there is fraud here, what are the damages? QUESTIONS THAT MAY LEAD TO THE DISCOVERY OF FRAUDULENT DAMAGES
3.. Was there inducement?(Advertising, Solicitation) 4.. What does the note represent? (Your promise to pay) 5.. Where will you derive the funds to pay? (From your labor) 6.. Is your labor, your property? (Duh! ) 7.. How many years will you be paying on this note? (5, 10, 15, 30) 8.. What is the interest rate? (8%, 10%, 12%) 9.. Is that interest rate compounded annually, monthly, weekly, or daily? 10.. What is the actual rate of interest? (25-50% ) 11.. Does this violate the Usury Laws? (12% or higher annual interest rate) 12.. Was this disclosed in the contract as required by the Federal Usury Disclosure Act? 13.. Did the bank raise an asset to itself on your hand written name? (Without your knowledge and consent) 14.. Did the bank use the note first (before) you received your loan, to raise the funds for the loan? (Did they sell it, or use it for collateral for a loan from another institution) 15.. Does this make the note a negotiable instrument? (Tendering a future earnings instrument for consideration to a third party and endorsing, "without recourse.") 16.. Did the bank properly apply the proceeds from your note to the purported debt? 17.. What did the bank do with those proceeds? (Look at the building) 18.. Who else is deriving a benefit from your note, (and hand written name) without your knowledge or consent? 19.. Have you been damaged? You will have to decide if there is fraud here. But, if you get a Complaint to Foreclose your Mortgage and you do not answer and dispute every allegation, then you must counterclaim. What do you think a good counterclaim might be?
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I think about now he is phoning the neighbors and saying maybe you were right.

are
bank
right
liability?
the
itself,
daily?
future
Complaint
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HUH?
You take possession of a product from a merchant.
You sign for it.
The bank pays the merchant.
You owe the bank what it paid the merchant.
If you never borrow the money it is never created.
Where in the above example is the Bank unethically keeping and using your money?
Your paragraph does not make sense.

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snipped-for-privacy@cs.com (Kevin Nolan) wrote:

Since they can monitize approximately seven (yes 7) times as much money as is deposited, does that mean that under the terms of your scheme, they should also be FORCED to issue you credit of $7000 for every $1000 you deposit?
If so, check this out and it does work mechanically for UNSECURED loans:
1) You deposit $5000 into your bank. 2) Your CORPORATION receives an unsecured loan for $35,000 3) The bank is fully extended.
4) You pull a Gary and withdraw $35,000 from your CORPORATION and deposit it into your bank. 5) Your CORPORATION receives an unsecured loan for $245,000 6) The bank is fully extended.
7) You pull a Gary and withdraw $245,000 from your CORPORATION and deposit it into your bank. 8) Your CORPORATION receives an unsecured loan for $1,715,000 9) The bank is fully extended.
10) You pull a Gary and withdraw $1,715,000 from your CORPORATION and deposit it into your bank. 11) Your CORPORATION receives an unsecured loan for $12,005,000 12) The bank is fully extended.
Unwind. Corporation files BK and stiffs the bank for $14,000,000 You withdraw your money the same day $2,000,000
Bank becomes in solvent and dissolves and remaining depositors above $100,000 are stiffed.
There. Build a MLM around that.
Be sure to find a jurisdiction to live in that has no extradidtion treaties with the USA. I suggest Cuba.
Test: How much did you start with and how much do you have now?
Jerry
Gee I wonder why there are banking laws and underwriting rules?

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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wrote:

Jerry, who is your bank that gives out all these uncecured loans? ;)
For more fun, assume that one is a a well regarded buiness and personal customer of a bank. Explain to the loan officer that you want to borrow $100,000 or so to invest in that same banks stock.
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They're not keeping that money, they gave it to the merchant!
Sheesh.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Then you're even! If the money was created in your name and you get goods or services, everybody's even.
Kevin
"4" Kevin Nolan Countdown Hobbies; http://countdownhobbies.com "3" NAR 16148 7 P.T. Barnum Square, Bethel, CT 06801-1838 "2" TRA 0943 Orders: 800-810-0281; Info: 203-790-9010 (voice/fax) "1" NARCONN/CTRA snipped-for-privacy@cs.com "0" NRHSA     "Put Fun & Excitement in Your Life"
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