ATFE to produce anti-rocketry video



Where do I look?
len.
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On 05 Nov 2003 05:54:41 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (RayDunakin) wrote:

Jerry already stated, in this public forum, that is going to sue them. But I don't belive everything Jerry says.
Alan
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Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed wrote:
<about a BATFE test - SNIP>
"Hey, Lab guys (long time beneficiary of GOVT contracts), we need to prove a model rocket can be adapted into an anti-aircraft weapon by terrorists. And to make a video of it which will scare the bejezuz out of the sheeple........ No, not just politicians, the public, too."
"No problem, Agents (more money, more GOVT friends). Okay, send a guy out to buy something, anything, that has to do with rockets. That will cover easy availability of the components. For the actual test, just leave that to us (a dedicated research firm who specializes in this kind of stuff and who has expertise, resources, and government friends unavailable to common terrorists)."
[Lights flash and eerie sounds come from the Lab where scientists and engineers develop a carefully designed and analyzed anti-aircraft test to show model rockets are dangerous to airliners.]
"Okay, Agents, listen up. It's pretty hard to hit a moving aircraft with an unguided rocket; that's why its not usually even attempted by military organizations. But, we can use anything a terrorist MIGHT use, right? And we don't really HAVE to hit anything, just make people believe we MIGHT be able to, right? That'll scare em. And the simple fact the GOVT is testing the idea will make it seem plausible to most, anyways. All you need is a "proof" of concept to stop rocketry dead in its tracks. Now, take all this stuff out to the Air Force Base and follow these detailed instructions."
[Test ensues. Results are as expected based upon requirements of test; they found what the test was designed to reveal.]
"Thank you, Senator Schmuzer, it's always a pleasure to help out. Now, about the possible use of high power rifles, or [fill-in-the-blank], against aircraft taking-off or landing: we have an interesting test that makes those rockets look positively harmless in comparison..."
The fact that this "terrorist operation" experiment was uncovered means nothing, I guess.
It is trivial to design an experiment to yield predetermined results. It is the standard MO for unethical scientists and FUD mongers of all types; environ wackos, health wackos, govt wackos, etc, and the public laps it up as "proof" of something. (A REAL experiment doesn't "prove" anything. In fact, the most useful and valid experimental results DISPROVE hypotheses.) I have NO doubt the BATFE will "prove" their experimental hypothesis, whatever it may be. Then WE will look like the "bad guys", again, trying to shoot holes in their experiment. Its just another PR ploy and it WILL work, I'm sad to say, on Congress and the Public.
--
Gary Bolles
NAR 82636
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This explains what Bob at Great Lakes Hobbies told me the other day. He said he was contacted by someone who said he was working for the "Air Force" and that they wanted to buy a large number of G80 motors and have them shipped to a test range in Utah. He thought it was odd that when he asked about which delay they wanted they didn't seem to care about it. Bob said he sent them a price quote but he wasn't sure if he would accept the order because it seemed they intended to modify the motors in some way.
He also said he was talking to one of the kit manufacturers and that the same guy had contacted them and bought a bunch of "specially" modified kits.
John
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (John G 712) wrote:

I hope someone is documenting all the details for behind the scenes post-mortem analysis when they publish the fraud.
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

Behind the scenes, hell! Ought to make a public scandal up front: "Senator, what is your response to the reports that BATFE is engaged in producing a rigged demo intended to falsely exaggerate the dangers of sport rocketry?"
-dave w
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It seems to me that a rocketry-friendly member of congress could demand a live demonstration of the supposed threat, with the requirement being that they, the BATFE, gets one (or two, or three...) chances. Members of his staff would verify the demonstration set-up (assure no electronics in the rocket, no wire) and visually track the rocket.
Of course, the BATFE could not deliver, so how then to turn the whole thing into a big and very public embarrassment for them?
--
...The Bit Eimer [remove keinewurst to email me]

"My goal in life is to be the kind of person my cat thinks he is"
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excellent idea..I hope the NAR/TRA is coordinating with Senator Enzi that he be privy to the test live in person..... shockie B)

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bit eimer wrote:

The DOJ made a mess of the election in Philly,.....took a close election, made it appear the Democrat incumbent was under investigation, figured the Republican would be a shoe in.......in reality the DOJ misunderstood how much the people hate them, how much the people can see through the smoke they blow, and they took a close election and make a laugher runaway for the incumbent..........they need secrecy to prevent looking like fools. This government really mistakes how much people trust them...........read that as close to ZERO.
Now, how about we write ABC news to do a 'This is your money' segment about the atf show, explain the costs, explain who makes money working for ARA, explain the reasoning, basically explain their reason to exist. Make the brats accountable.
--

Chuck Rudy

VooDoo Digital Productions
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NAR/TRA needs to institute a FOIA immediately to get all the results as soon as possible for rebutal analysis purposes....
shockie B)

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shockwaveriderz wrote:

FOIA does not apply if the information is claimed to be sensitive to national security. You may be able to ask if the test was done, but not about the results.
-john
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We already have 1 in the form of the NH state police testing APCP does not exploded along with Rocketry's 40+ year history of no serious life threatening incidents.
JD

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wonder if it'll end up on wolrds funniest videos
(look they missed) (missed again) (not even close) ('nother miss) (are they even aiming them?)
--
Tater
President of MARS Club
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Let's see... the names David and Shatzner.... could that be a name the Lone Gunmen would use to combine David Ducovny with William Shatner? Yep! Sounds like Frohike is behind this one. ; )
Randy
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