pros and cons list for Pro38 and Aerotech engines.

Thanks for letting me know. It looks like I need to look a little farther than my (up till now) usual sources.

Phil Ste>

Jerry I. in a headlock, person holding him captive...pounding relentlessly on his noggin....

"Hello! McFly!

:-)

John

Fully half of the new rocket motor companies started in the last five years or so are Canadian. I smell one of those subtle takeover conspiracies. I am locutus...resistance is futile :-)

Well said, back on sub-thread topic :-)

Ken Baldwin CAR S825 replace nospam with telus to reply

Wow, let me see, fewer rules, more choice and you get to fly!

Sounds like Nirvana.

Ken Baldwin CAR S825 replace nospam with telus to reply

Under current TRA rules USR motors made by AT would not be certifiable. Just like AT motors made by Ellis weren't certifiable...

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

I do know the 64.5g G's were made that mass to prove to one cynical monopolist that 1.4C was not limited to "HIS" blessed 62.5g limit.

It WORKED BTW.

CTI I believe has 1.4C M motors.

Anthony Rocks!

Fly with CTI!

Just Jerry

God save the queen!

daft    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (dft) adj. daft·er, daft·est

1. Mad; crazy.
2. Foolish; stupid.
3. Scots. Frolicsome.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Middle English dafte, foolish, from Old English gedæfte, meek.]

------------------------------------------------------------------------ daftly adv. daftness n.

Nope. The permits are not. The products of the permits are.

Only because it does say that.

Plus we recognise your certs and have 2 major national launches a year over

2/3 days that already attracts flyers from Europe.

We have one of the best if not best flying site in Europe.

We can arange for tempory UKRA membership (1 month) and tempory Aquire only explosive certificates so you can buy and fly on site.

Why not arange a UK holiday around our 3day UKRA National event in June or 2 day Klob event in September. See the sites and fly a rocket ;-)

Best wishes

Damian

-- Damian Burrin UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO EARS 1115

email snipped-for-privacy@ntlworld.com email snipped-for-privacy@ukrocketry.com

certified --

That is false.

Joel. phx

The home brew is no great loss I assure you. As for deserts, I seem to recall a lot of grass over there so landings are softer.

If you could just find fields with fewer trees. You need watson or similar recovery beacons for high performance HPR. You already have waivers at least to 25,000 feet.

cite where it states that Bob....... shockie B)

certified --

perhaps..perhaps not.....you will notice that most HPR rocketeers in the UK, have a explosives license and a magazine to store such explosives in.....its not optional, its required...... which is what the NAR/TRA are fighting against here.... hmmm doesn't anybody find it interesting that in the UK, the HPR rocketeers don't seem to have a problem with explosives licenses and explosives magazines.... ohh wait a minute, this is the same country that basically forbids citizens to own firearms..... I might add that this explosive license is required on motors greater than Estes D size.....

so be careful when comparing apples and oranges.... shockie B)

ECXEPT specific UN numbers. Unlimited size and quantity.

Also there there are "the police" not 15 layers of conflicting jurisdiction police:

FBI ATF State Trooper County Sheriff Local police school police metro police park police forest service couty hazmat etc, etc, etc

Here in USA if you have a permit, it is a waiver of some very narrow subsection of code orlaw and you are "on your own" with the rest.

A UK permit ALLOWS you to posess, transport, store, discharge, dispose, etc every aspect of the designated materials IN GENERAL.

God save the queen.

Jerry

Hardly an issue.

This is something we've always had to do. The certificate is applied for and is free 'police or fire service' do an inspection of your method of storage.

The 'explosive magazine' or storage device can be anything from a lockable draw. Most the guys i know use army surpless amunition boxes and line them with wood.

No we don't anyone can own a firearm in the UK you just have to register it.

Our gun crime might be on the up since the market was flooded with ex eastern block hardware. however it's still a lot lower than the US.

Registration dosn't stop the nutters getting guns, but at least it not a case of locking the stable door after the horse has bolted which is what seems to be happening in the US at the moment.

says the guy comparing guns to HPR

Damian

-- Damian Burrin UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO EARS 1115

email snipped-for-privacy@ntlworld.com email snipped-for-privacy@ukrocketry.com

that is the basis of the problem here...the NAR/TRA have set themselves up as the gateway keeper .....which is ok with me as long as you are a NAR/TRA member and want to fly under NAR/TRA mandate..... what has compounded the problem is that the NAR/TRA have used the NFPA codes to increasingly spread their form of rocketry(and their control) to most of the other states.....This control forbids the use of commercially made motors except within the confines of the NAR/TRA approved form of rocketry..... So this is what prevents a company like say USR, from selling motors commercially to amateur rocketeers.... The NAR/TRA does not recognize that there could be a commercial manufacturer of motors that are not certified by either the NAR/TRA for use by amateur rocketeers....You do have the option of flying outside the confines and therfore the rules and regulations of the NAR/TRA/IFC/NFPA.....This is what is known as Amateur or Experimental Rocketry.....But you must fly as an independent and under any applicable state and federal laws...and you can only use home brew motors, you cannot purchase commercial motors for use in your AER rocketry activities.

I have been told (by NAR people) that the NFPA codes do not apply to a person's individual activities in amateur rocketry.....ie amateur rocketry where people home brew their own motors for their own personal use (yes TRA calls this EX, but its always been AR ok?) ....

If we had the UK model here, you as a manufacturer would take samples of your motors to the DOT approved testing agencies, get them their EX numbers, and they would be legal for resale in this country. No 3rd party "seal of goodhouse keeping" would be required or needed......which is what the NAR/TRA provides.....

I don't have a problem with this 3rd party engine certification, what I have a problem with is the NAR/TRA basically monopolizing the marketplace, saying you can't manufacturer engines unless you meet our standards, even if your rocket motors are NOT going to be used by our memberships..... They say you can make commercial engines for our memberships and if you do, you must follow our rules......YOU also cannot make commercial engines for people who are not in our membership.....without our stamp of approval......this could be construed as restraint of trade........ shockie B)

Bit of a simplification. Generally you have to deal with three bodies.

The core document is either the "license to acquire" or "license to acquire and keep". You get this from your local Police. This is free, and is renewable either every year or every three years.

If you choose the "License to acquire" route, you're done. You can buy motors on site, but you have to have arrangements in place for storage in case you can't use them, as you can't take them away with you. Usually your vendor will take care of that, but it's perfectly OK if your buddy looks after the motors for you.

If you go the "license to acquire and keep", you need a registered store. You get that from either the local Fire Service or Local Trading Standards Officer (depends where you live). Renewable annually, it costs the equivalent of about $20.

If you have a "license to acquire and keep" you also need a "Recipient Competent Authority" document. You get this by faxing your "license to acquire and keep" & "registered store" documentation to the HSE. They send you the "RCA" the next day.

Might sound complicated, but it isn't. People generally only have problems if they are either dealing with local officials who have never heard of hobby rocketry before, or they're nuts.

Cite please.

More importantly, NFPA codes do not apply in states where it has not been adopted.

EX is a subset (more restrictive) than AR.

The UL model would be a closer comparison. Motors would be taken to an independent test agency (not transportation) who would verify thrust, delay and flammability issues.

They don't.

Why is that a problem?

Except it's not true. Anyone can make and sell motors according to their local and state laws. If your state doesn't require testing of motors, it's up to the individual to demand some sort of quality assurance. If your state laws include NFPAs then that's your states issue. What they didn't realize they signed up for was certification of motors. Submit a motor to the fire marshal and ask it be certified ask about setting up an independent certification test lab for your state.

Joel. phx