Bachmann 2006

But a contract has to allow for the employee to opt out of Sunday working, because thats part of employment law.

In message , John Turner writes

Maybe, but what is your contract? As John Ruddy suggests, "Any employee has the legal right to refuse Sunday work, by giving in writing 3 months notice." If your contract prohibits this it is illegal, and can be set aside by the courts. Then there can be no breach of contract because there isn't a contract to breach, and you can do them for unfair (or illegal) dismissal.

However, they'd probably give you a reasonable out-of-court settlement to avoid all those lawyers' fees.

Except most of the ones which excite the tabloids are British interpretations of EU rules, not actual EU rules.

Our politicians have reaslied that they can get away with almost anything by saying "Brussels made me do it". Everyone is then so busy discussing how terrible this is given 1918, 1945 and 1966, that they don't look at whether Brussels actually had anything to do with it.

":::Jerry::::" wrote in news:43e64060$1$14677$ snipped-for-privacy@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net:

Whereas the more intelligent and better educated amongst us laugh at things we hold in contempt.

I was expecting a resounding defence of the EU in all of it's crapulent festering glory, but to be fair to you Jerry the only real defenders of the EU are the incompetent, has-been and corrupt politicians that have inveigled themselves on to the great taxpayer funded gravy train. Mandleson, Patten, Kinnock, Brittan ... what an august body to be associated with.

Arthur Figgis wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

I take it that you had no desire to eat a West Indian banana once you've got back from the shops after making a fruitless search for traditional solder?

This is all very interesting, but I wonder if the 'expensive & super-detailed' vs 'cheap & cheerful' model question is more complex. Take a Mk1 coach, for example. If you had the choice between a detailed, flush-glazed Bachmann for =A320 and a reissued ex-Lima version for =A310, which would you buy? One of the early contributors to this thread made the point that the cheaper version would enable them to have more on their layouts for the same price, so I am assuming they would have more of the Lima versions.

What price would make you change your mind? For instance if the Bachmann Mk1 was =A320 but the ex-Lima was only =A35, might you be tempted to buy the cheaper coaches and super detail them yourself? (lets assume the components for this were easily available).

But, what if the ex-Lima versions at =A310 were sold in packs of four, with slightly modified front ends to two of the coaches giving them cabs and mu connections, thus forming a 4-CEP unit for =A340? If you were an SR modeller, would you buy this low quality model rather than have no rtr version at all? Or, would you wait patiently for the super detailed/flush glazed/dimensionally accurate version that may never be manufactured, and even when it is would probably retail for around =A3100 given todays coach price levels?

John,

Are you absolutely sure about that? I only ask since there are a lot of jobs in this country that have to be staffed on Sundays and if employees in those jobs all exercised their opt out rights, then Sundays would be rather quiet, dark and cold, etc.

I work in an industry where you can work any hour any day. These conditions are in your contract and if you don't like it, you find another job with no penalty on the employer.

Jim.

Yes, I am sure. I work in a company which trades 7 days a week as a manager, and have to deal with staff requests to opt out from time to time. Its not generally known, else it would prove difficult to open on a Sunday! But the law is quite clear on this point. Stores with less than 3000 sq ft trading floor space, and certain types of retailer are exempt from this, as they are from the restriction on opening hours.

I think this a case of the law might say that you don't have to work Sundays but the consequences of exercising that right can be detrimental to your ability to earn a living. People who refuse to comply with requirements of a particular business can be passed over for salary increases & promotions & it would be very difficult to prove any wrong doing on the part of the employer. As for lawyers fees, I'm sure Tesco et al are in a better financial state to employ the best than a lowly shop assistant further even bad publicity is good for business (with in reason).

Therein lies the rub John. It's far to easy to bend these requirments to suit. I still maintain that it's a brave employee who, having accepted the retail norm of being available 7 days a week, decides to opt out with no real reason.

Norman

I recommend the park round Knightsbridge Barracks. Plenty of traditional soldiers, and some of them are West Indian. So I'm told, anyway.

Cheers, Steve

"Norman" wrote

Absolutely, and no 'benefit of the doubt' offered in other matters either.

John.

I suspect that most of us on this list are salaried, so we probably just don't "get it". Only shop workers have the right to an opt-out from Sunday work. In general, a contract of employment that requires the employee to work wherever and whenever the employer deems necessary is perfectly legal. Reasonableness and fair treatment is the key. It's my experience that hourly paid shop workers will work whatever hours are available. They need the money. And if they don't want to, there are plenty of people who will do extra hours to cover. No-one has to coerce or dismiss anyone.

There is no protection of employment rights in general until the employment has lasted one year. Contrary to the popular mythology of the tabloid press, any employer can dismiss anyone at any time for *reasonable* cause. Any decent employer will have proper employment procedures in place, plus legal expenses insurance especially to cover employment issues, and will seek advice on proceeding in the correct manner. Employers who are lazy or impatient, or who ignore the professional advice, are the ones who end up in court. Plus those who are simply shitty employers and shouldn't be allowed to be in business in the first place. Decent employers don't get "done", and they don't need to make out-of-court settlements.

Cheers, Steve

Windward Islands any good? (more to the point, why on earth does the shop _package_ bananas?)

IIRC the USA and other countries through the World Trade Organisation didn't like the attempts by EU countries to bias the trade in favour of their ex-colonies, because the US/mutiinationals can undercut the places which depend on bananas. The bananas are still available, though.

Presumably turning our backs on Europe in favour of the USA, as so often proposed, wouldn't exactly help here!

As for solder, as long as it joins my wires together, and it seems to, I don't care.

Bananas are a classic clase. Our beloved media - much of it controlled by a foreigner opposed to our constitution - rant about Brussels banning bent bananas, and people believe it. Meanwhile, businesses are grateful for being able to trade everywhere with the same set of standards, rather than have to meet 25 separate standards, some perhaps rigged to make it impossible for outsiders to compete in a particular market.

Vaguely towards the topic, France comes up with spurious regulations as a way of keeping out other countries' trains. So freight which would use UK rails, instead either travels by lorry or go via Dutch and Belgian ports instead of British ones. Hurrah for "independence"...

Employees arn't required to give a reason, though we do question them to make sure that their reason is not some external factor that we could perhaps change to help them work.

That was me. Yes, bring em on! At least initially. Once the kids are older and I trust them to handle super detailed models i may consider the more expensive ones.

Yes.

I'm not, but if I were, the answer would be a resounding yes

MBQ

Which defeats your argument that large retailers become monopolies. Your business has flourished in the face of competition form larger organisations, it's rather arrogant of you to assume other retaliers do not have the same skills and cannot also succeed.

How do you proopose they be made in this country at a price and quality level that is acceptable to the buying public? It's not just a question of the low wages in the far east but the high wages and standard of living we expect in this country.

MBQ

message

Go and ask all those companies who are based in this country but trade with the EU what they will do if the UK was outside of the EU and thus all their exports to the EU attracted import duty or were not protected by EU agreements with other countries etc...

"Steve W" wrote in news:43e6a72d$0$6961$ snipped-for-privacy@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net:

...

:-)

Solder not soldier, as in lead solder soon to be extinct now that the EU has decided to prevent it's use in consumer electronics. :-(