Bachmann 2006

No use if they won't sell anything to you on the grounds of stupid excuses. Tried to order something from a large computer company a couple of christmas' ago. Firstly the website says they need a delivery address in the UK. Luckily I wanted it delivered to a UK address. However they then refused to accept my address on my credit card as it wasn't in the UK.

Having contacted customer "support" they told me that they needed both addresses in the UK because of the security checks that they needed to run.

A short "I'll never buy anything from you again" followed.

If I could work out how to get advice from the trading standards officer I would do (the website's not exactly helpful). Whilst I believe that they can refuse to sell me something, I'm not sure that they can refuse on the grounds given, but then I'm out of touch on running my own company these days.

-- Rod

"kim" wrote

Ironically some years ago a chap (now deceased) who ran a model shop in Hull before mine opened was always complaining that Hornby were supplying one of his competitors at a lower price than at which he was able to buy.

Hornby denied this of course, but on one visit his rep accidentally left some documentation which conclusively proved that the other retailer was receiving an additional 15% discount.

Of course these days Hornby are rather more subtle than that. They *may* actually supply all retailers at the same notional price, but some of the larger operations do get sweeteners. There has been a proliferation of national newspaper advertising of Hornby train sets in recent years, and whilst we are assured these bulk sellers pay the same price, it has emerged that they've been given freebies like additional 'track packs' to make their product more competitive.

John.

wrote

And what if 'Music Box' hadn't needed bank support to set up their business?

If you start penalising the directors of businesses which go bust then you're discouraging people from having a go. There's always risks in setting up a business, if there were none then everyone would be doing it.

John.

How much competition would you say those newspaper adverts from non-modelling mail order companies provide to the average specialist retailer? I would have thought it was minimal, and it might attract people to the hobby who then buy products from a shop such as yours?

It certainly used to be a requirement of credit card use that telephone or mail order (card not present) sales could only be delivered to the registered card holders address. It helps prevent fraud. It was widely ignored and may not now be a requirement.

If they choose not to get into the hassle of shipping abroad, not charging VAT, etc., then I think that's their perogative and there's not a lot you can do about it.

MBQ

What is it they say about a foll being parted from his money?

If it's only his own money he's lost then fair enough, let him try again. In the case quoted by Kim, he was bankrupt owing millions to suppliers and the revenue. If it can be shown this was due to bad business practices then he shouldn't, IMHO, be allowed to do it again (unless all the debts are repaid). At least not without some kind of health warning to future creditors.

MBQ

Apparently there are more horses in the UK today than there were at the beginning of the 20th century - at the height of working horse usage. Granted that most of the present day horses are not working horses per se, but they produce the same amount of dung per back end :-)

Jim.

If directors of a company have been trading insolvently then they can be prosecuted under company law. Basically, trading insolvently means incurring costs with no obvious means of paying for them. It would look as though this could possibly have been so in the case quoted - with the retailer raising extended credit with his suppliers but receiving insufficient funds from sales to cover the credit and other costs.

When a receiver or adminstrator is called into a company, one of the main factors they look for is insolvent trading.

Jim.

I would have thought they're smaller horses, working a lot less, eating a lot less and c**pping a lot less.

MBQ

"Benny" wrote

Try looking in the phone book under Trading Standards - it's a body run by your local council so it should be easy enough to find. Then ring them - it's easier than pratting with websites.

John.

wrote

There's no problem with VAT on exports to EEC countries, the standard rate for the originating country is always payable [1] and there is no further duty or VAT to be paid on import to the UK.

It may of course be that the problem was not a VAT issue, but one where the potential purchaser wanted goods delivering to an address other than the one to which their card statement was usually sent [2]. This is in contravention of the card issuing company's regulations and could explain why the transaction was refused.

[1] Goods can be exported to other EEC countries free of VAT providing the person to whom the goods are being shipped is VAT registered. In these circumstances the recipient is liable for UK VAT on resale. [2] This leaves the retailer open to the risk of a chargeback if the cardholder complains that the sale was nothing to do with them.

John.

Jerry?

You attempting to place the race card in a political argument says far more about you than it does me...

bankrupt,

No it world not, we make goods in this country that are send sent across the channel to 'mainland europe', if the UK was not in the EU those products would be made in some other country within the EU so that import duty would not be incurred - for example Peugeot-Citroen would not carry on manufacturing their cars in this country and importing them to France and the rest of the EU.

stiffer

Agreed, it's far to easy for companies to declare themselves bankrupt and criminal that those same directors can then carry on in business.

There is talk of changing this and there is a per country limit of typically

100,000EUR for business to consumer trade where you need to register in the destination country see section 5.13 in the Intrastat book from hmrc (There is a table in the back of the Intrastat manual and smaller countries like Luxembourg have lower limits typically 35,000 EUR).

In practice most folks are very unlikely to cross this limit with business to consumer trade.

Peter

They have every right to refuse to sell to you on those grounds. Fraud is rife on the Internet, and a lot of online shops take the view that any order which is in any way unusual isn't worth the risk.

Only delivering to the cardholder address is a bit extreme, and not many shops go that far. But requiring the delivery and cardholder addresses to be in the same country is more common, and eliminates one of the most common forms of fraud.

Mark

wrote

There are restrictions on undischarged bankrupts running a business but there are ways around that. I knew one guy (now dead) who'd been jailed for attempting to defraud the VAT man, had been bankrupted on more than one occasion and whilst still undischarged managed to run a haulage business but in his wife's name. Guess what - that went broke too.

You've probably all heard of this rogue as he was generally well thought of in railway circles - apart from those who really knew him.

John.

"John Ruddy" wrote

At a time when our turnover has been consistently rising, our sales of Hornby trainsets has dropped significantly. I reckon that the market for trainsets if very definitely finite, and it is only possible to push sales so far before sales for one retailer become business lost for another. When one retailer is able to sell at or below the cost price for another then that doesn't constitute fair trade to me.

John.

I chose to stop because I was turning into a zombie with psychotic mood swings. I'd rather enjoy life in full colour and die young. And guess what, my condition cleared up by itself. Next.

>

Yesterday. I did a week's shopping at Tesco for two adults, including loads of decent booze, and proper fresh food, only free range organic produce gets in my gullet. We have a proper Sunday meal for 6, and give what we don't eat to the cats. Altogether I spent rather less than the price of a Hornby class

2. Anyone indulging in the obscenely expensive hobby of railway modelling cannot possibly be bothered about the price of food. Next.

My subscription website has a 100% margin and a 1,000,000% return on capital. And that's just something I set up for a laugh. Next.

Sorry, but I don't know of anyone who hasn't got a major shopping centre within half a mile of their town residence. Of course, it's a lot quieter around their country places. That's why they call it the country.

Thank God all those small shops have been swept away. Miserable gits the lot of them. And you have something against social workers doing their jobs, huh? Next!

Oh, that's it?

Cheers, Steve