USR Motors on ROL

nope.

Actually, Florida is an interesting case. NFPA 1127 et.al. is NOT specifically called out. Only NFPA 1. I called the State Fire Marshal's office and talked with them about it. They told me that they would apply the definition of explosive found in the state law (which exactly mirrors the federal definition) and not have any restrictions to purchasing APCP motors since their purpose was NOT to explode. IOW they chose not to implement NFPA 1127.

Bob

Hmmm. A government with actual common sense. What's wrong with Florida?

What are they going to do next? Certify elections based on the official count by the Secretary of State or something?

Jerry

BATFE doesn't care about NFPA/TRA certification.

-dave w

TRA and AT invited them to the party. If you have not realized this yet, you have ignored history.

There's FUD for ya. There were plento complaints about motor auctions about the time AT auction prices went through the roof. Enough noise to cause ROL to put a disclaimer on motor auctions (if you hadn't noticed). If the manufacturer(s) and or government don't do/care anything about illegal shipping, why should we?

"Just shut up". Love it. Highest class rmr argument I've seen so far. Gotta write that down.

Joel. phx

Been there a long time.

Or if they consider it legal more likely.

Oregon has not adopted any part of 112X

Rocky Firth

phillipd: I think we have agreed in the past that the NAR/TRA has no enforcement authority.... other than what they think incorrectly that they have..... and it doesn't take a mental genius nor lawyer to look up which states adhere to NFPA 1127 and those that don't...... as a matter of fact, yes they should know the law in all 50 states....... ignorance of the law is no defense when you end up in court.... before any company does any business in any state I would assume they check the laws as to their applicability to their respective business... shockie B)

ROTFLMAO!!!!

Granted, it's crude and unsophisticated. But it is direct and to the point. Look back at thread summary:

Joe: "Jer found himself a strawman to sell and illegally ship his motors for him" Shockie: "what concerns me ... is the fact that ROL seems intent on facilitating illegal behavior" Philip: "Do you know for a fact that the motors sole on ROL will be illegally shipped? If not, just shut up."

If a poster has absolutely no facts upon which to base a statement, and their post is made as a statement of fact, the speaker is either willingly ignorant or attempting to decieve. Since neither post adds anything to the discussion, please save me the trouble of reading them.

"Just shut up"

Philip

and I noticed again that you will not answer directly specific questions regarding your business activity in the state of California... shall I call CSFM them and ask them since you can't provide a simple yes or no?

and the point remains, if you have transferred to another person, for profit, the engines for resale and you do not have the applicable California CSFM licenses, you are in violation of the California law Jerry, its pretty simple....

I don't know what you are talking about as far as "barter" goes......If you sell drugs to an undercover agent for any value, and not necessarily money changes hand, you can still be charged with drug sales......

So does this "strawman" have the applicable California CSFM licenses? He cannot export (sale) these rocket motors outside CA with out an importer/exporter license.....

shockie B)

We agree partially: They have authority which they have improperly assigned to themselves. Their opinion is that you must comply with the law as they interpret it or be denied access to a very large percentage of the market place. And since that can make or break a business, they definitely have authority.

I agree with what you just said, but your earlier post was:

ROL is doing business in no state. Even if auctions were paid, they busines is to provide a mechanism by which buyers and sellers can meet and negotiate. That has nothing to do with the laws applicable to motor sales.

CSFM manufacturer licensing/type registration for "rocket motors" only applies to "consumer" motors - i.e., H or larger motors to be used under the auspices of a "class 3 rockets" licensee, or smaller motors for use by the general public (permission from local fire authority required in either case).

Rockets launched under the control of a "class 2 rockets" licensee (which Frank Kosdon, for example, has) can use solid motors not classified as either "model rocket engines" or "high power rocket engines" in the Registered Pyrotechnics program, and state "manufacturer licensing" does not apply to these.

-dave w

Shockie,

Precisely HOW would you do this? Jerry might have (for example, I'm making this up on the spot) bought the rights of the ACS stuff, started another sole proprietership (Jerry's Rockets), and have received a CSFM permit under the "Jerry's Rockets" name. Unless you KNOW, for a FACT that there is something illegal going on, or actually have REASONABLY VALID knowledge of it, all you're doing is spitting on a bucket of snakes. And it appears that Jerry has gotten tap-dancing with the AHJs down to a fine art, or he would have been fined/incarcerated long ago. So, they appear to accept the legality of what he is doing, and I have to ask someone again, why are your panties in a wad over this?

David Erbas-White

... the NRA/TRA has no enforcement authority, however they insist on engaging in enforcement activities despite their lacking any actual authority to do so.

... they maintain the presumption of authority which they have improperly assigned themselves ... since that can make or break a business, that presumption of authority has real effect

- iz

Iz,

We agree. And one comment on:

I don't really care if that has been done in the past. I care that it CAN be done now. Whether that is happening or not is the other hot RMR debate. But we can certainly settle that debate by removing the ABILITY to engaging in enforcement activities

Philip

yes, and I would add that the precipitating conditions be addressed to forestall recurrence in the futire

- iz

PhilipD wrote:

Show of hands of people who believe all those motors on ROL auctions are being hand delivered to the purchaser.

Joel. phx

If the government gave a crap wouldn't we have heard about it by now? Or can't they afford the prices to obtain evidence?