ATFE Anti-rocketry Video



R O F L
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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They may not be able to force you to sell to them, but I'm sure they could easily make you wish you had. Probaly the best Aerotech could have done (had they even wanted to), was to get a lawyer and try to run some delaying tactics and hope the ATF would give up. Unfortunately, it would cost a fortune to try that.

Federal law enforcement personnel would be exempt from state laws while in the performance of their duties.
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delaying
Seems to me, ALL LEO are exempt from any laws while in the performance of their duties. (And at all other times too.)
Just me, thinking again. Everyone tells me not to, at least until I have some experience.
just Ed....Ed M
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No government employee or agency should ever be exempt from any law that the rest of us are required to follow. The government is not a priveleged class in this country. Well, it's not supposed to be.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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writes:

in
performance
the
class
so no speeding? no beating of violent criminals? no guns? no jaywalking?
(note: I am talking myself into a corner, in same circumstances I would be violating same laws as above)
--
Tater
President of MARS Club (NAR #660)
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writes:

while
Hi, Guys
I learned in school, back when they taught such things in school, that this is a nation of law, not of men. Under a nation of law, laws based on the Constitution, everyone is subject to the same law. Race, gender, age, religion, politcial party, position, wealth, should not enter into the picture. The only question shoud be, did this person commit x crime or not? The way it actually works is that all of these things, and more, are used to sidestep and avoid being accountable for ones actions. I don't for a minute actually think the ideal was ever the way it really was, but most people understood it and tried. One problem is that today, most people only think of "what can I get away with?", or "who cares? It dosen't matter anyway". I was once involved with a state law enforcement agency. The general attitude is the classic "theres them, and theres us. We're the good guys, and everyone else is against us. Therefore, anything we do is good, and anything they do is bad." And some of these folks are really scary with their attitudes. Ever hear of "professional coursty (sp)"? It's PC for, "I'll wink at your drunken driving if you will wink at mine". But yes, I believe that everyone should be subject to the same law. When Bush flew to Iraq, Air Force One was ID'ed as a GulfStream V on the international flight plan, abd the beacon transmitter. When a doper does that, they are tracked and shot down, no questions asked. Bush, as CIC, breaks an international law, and no big deal. It's ok, it's national security. I don't break any laws, but because I like to fly rockets, I'm a suspect. I carried a weapon in the service for 20 years, handled real explosives and chemical weapons, had a secret clearence, entrusted with millions of dollars worth of electronic equipment, and have to have a background check to visit a family member in prison, buy a gun, or fly a big model rocket, using an non-explosive propellent. And if I make my own motors, I run the risk of being accused of making pipe bombs.
Uh-oh. I've done it now.
I'd better the Rant mode off and get to work. Anyway, yes, I do believe in the rule of law for all, not just for those of us who cannot buy our way out.
Happy New Year to All.
Ed M.
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Correct. Speeding, running a red light, etc are currently permitted for emergency vehicles in the process of saving life or property. This is not just government, as a private ambulance, or volunteer fire dept are so permitted. I have turned in cops for breaking traffic laws when not running with their lights on. These have resulted in at least 2 suspensions.

Nope. Unless it's self defense. Same standard they'd hold me to.

Again, if I can't carry one...

Not if I can't do it too!

My point exactly. If it's OK for the government to do it, then it's OK for you and me to do it.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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Leonard Fehskens wrote:

yep
--
NFPA 1127 - Code for High Power Rocketry, 2002 Ed. (excerpted for
editorial review)
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Snip all.
I just want to see the video in Wal-Mart.
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

The sad part is, they could have probably just gone to a video effects production company and had them make a film clip of "people shooting little rockets at exploding airplanes" - if you're doing movie stuff, it seems that you can actually buy "industrial/effects" motor types without worrying about the rocketry association "certification list" stuff - and those guys probably have some idea of what to do with camera angles and sequence editing, such that they could have made a nice spectacular-looking film show without endangering any actual airplanes or even burning up any rental vans.
On a more general note, how long before some low-end cable network starts coming out with "most embarrassing cop videos"? I bet they could put together some great real-life "Keystone Kops" action collections from the out-takes of shows like "Cops"... (The one where the police cars collide with each other, the one where the police dog...)
-dave w
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This will more likely show up on Myth Busters. There is no video.
David Weinshenker wrote:

--
Alex Mericas


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On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:35:14 GMT, Alex Mericas

Are you sure that you aren't really "Dave Grayvis?" This sounds like one of his/hers/its unsubstantiated spews of nothingness.
We have all been making fun based on the possibilities of the existance of a video. Not knowing either way. However, you state it as a fact. Therefore, I challenge you to prove it. Prove that a video does not exist.
Bob
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baDBob wrote (in one of the most convincing and well researched posts of 2003): > Are you sure that you aren't really "Dave Grayvis?" This sounds like > one of his/hers/its unsubstantiated spews of nothingness. > > We have all been making fun based on the possibilities of the > existance of a video. Not knowing either way. However, you state it > as a fact. Therefore, I challenge you to prove it. Prove that a > video does not exist. > > Bob >
I have no evidence either way. Does that mean I'm wrong? I don't think so. There is no credible proof that it DOES exist. The null hypothesis is that the incident in question never happened and thus there is no video. There is no evidence to reject the null hypothesis. Don't dredge up the Aerotech letter because I've already conceded that the ATF did purchase the motors. But I still question that the van incident happened as described or that the "tests" where/are conducted as described. I can't prove they didn't but you can't prove that did. I can't prove that Santa Claus doesn't exist either (except in the minds of children).
I find it ironic that dozens (perhaps hundreds, haven't bothered to count) of posts are based on the belief that the facts did take place exactly as described based on nothing but an internet post be person/people who are known to exaggerate (The Memorial Day warnings to be exact). But if I question the validity of these "facts" my posts are labeled as unsubstantiated spews of nothingness. Wow. Are you guys interested in some Real Estate? Or perhaps you would like to buy some Herbal Viagra substitute pill.... What did Bugs Bunny used to say? What a maroon!
If independently substantiated proof that the events transpired EXACTLY AS DESCRIBED is shown I will retract my statements. If you want to waste your time talking about a mythical event, fine. I'm going to paint some rockets.
--
Alex Mericas


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I have faith they happened approximately as described because 3 independent professional contacts in direct contact with source witnesses confirmed it. You would have to know the people as I do to understand their ethical standards to fully trust them. I do.
As for Santa Clause, I find when I believe good things happen, and when I do not belive, they do not. On issues of religion and fantasy, blind faith can be an irrational feature positively reinforced by actual real events in life. Can't explain it but I have ancdotal evidence it is "beneficial".

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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wrote:

OK so Jerry Irvine has a friend of a friend who honestly tritely says it happened.
But we see no proof.
Balls in your court Jerry. So far there is no physical evidence proving your story. And don't give us this "we have to prove it doesn't exist" charade. That's nonsensical.
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further evidence would compromise the source, ergo you will not see it
get over it
- iz
Nozzlehead wrote:

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On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:42:07 GMT, Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed

I rest my case. I am over it unless you guys come up with some proof.
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If you are over it, why are you incessantly posting?
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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wrote:

Still no proof? See ya!
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oh, well that's convincing. Never mind. My suspicions have been confirmed.
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed wrote:

--
Alex Mericas


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