1:240 (approx) scale figures, accessories, etc?

Railways will be back as soon as the price of oil goes high enough! That won't be long, in spite of the US's best efforts.

Greg.P.

jeffrey David Miller wrote:

Greg Procter wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@ihug.co.nz:

*snip*

This might be a reflection of the economy as a whole. In a "traditional" family (mother, father, 2.4 kids), it's not uncommon for both the mother and father and 0.4 kid to have a job. More working = less free time for things like model railroading and baseball.

Puckdropper

I live in a different economy (NZ) and culture. (what's baseball?) =;^)

Kind of like cricket, only duller.

Crick... zzzzz.

Greg Procter wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@ihug.co.nz:

Culture, I'll definately agree with. Economy, well... that's more complicated. Have you bothered to pay attention to the economy of your area enough to notice such a trend as I have in mine? If so, is there that trend?

It could be that global macroeconomy is a result of the regional economies influencing the microeconomy in which we're interested. :-)

Puckdropper

Our trend is in the opposite direction to that of the US, except that the US trend affects ours at times. Five years ago our dollar bought US 39c, a month ago it peaked at US

81c. The problem became that our exports were being squeezed and imports becoming ever cheaper. With your recent housing finance crumble our dollar got a shake and fell to US 69c and has returned through US 74c on Friday on what looks like an ongoing climb. We (on average) take home about half the weekly equivalent that yanks do but our costs for housing, food, health and education are lower. We don't have the highs or lows of income of the USa.

The MR micro economy probably isn't as flush here as there as our remaining $$$ on average are smaller than yours.

Regards, Greg.P.

Greg Procter wrote: [...]

[...]

This thread is getting quite OT, so here's my 2 (Canuck) cents worth:

It's not that the NZ dollar is climbing - it's that the US dollar is falling. Relative to other significant currencies (the euro, the yen, the yuan, the pound, the Swiss franc), currencies such as the NZ and Canadian dollar change very little. (Our dollar is doing a little better than yours, mostly because we have commodities that you don't have.) Check it out.

You also (like most industrial nations) have a modern social welfare system, which brings real costs even lower, so that in terms of quality of life standards (longevity, education, health, literacy, public amenities, etc) you equal or exceed the USA. On most measures of quality of life, the USA ranks well below other industrial nations, and on some of them (eg, infant mortality, income distribution) it's a 3rd world country. Not like the 1950s and '60s, unfortunately.

There are two primary reasons for the US dollar's fall: their huge trade deficit wrt the rest of the world; and their huge and accumulating debt caused by spending on war. That's why such relatively small strains as the sub-prime mortgage debt crisis can have such a surprisingly large effect. (That debt crisis involves amounts that would pay for a week or two of war at most.) IMO, the Fed's cutting of interest rates will not provide a long-term stable resolution. It will merely shift real capital to more lucrative markets.

Agreed, I suspect that the the US is headed not into the dreaded recession but the totally unmentionable "do" word just as it about 80 years ago and in the early 1800's. My suspicion is that the world economy is much like a river the more you control it the stable it is in the short term. The longer it goes how ever the system falls victim to catastrophic swings from mild events.

Well, when the Euro first appeared we could exchange our dollar for just under Eu0,50. We got to just on Eu 0,59 before the recent bump and we've climbed back to Eu 0,54xx on friday.

True, we have few natural resources which obviously stabilize currencies so our currency is dependant on other factors such as primary production and foreign investor whims.

... which brings us back to the NZ economy being at the whims of foreign investors.

Regards, Greg.P.

Pete, with the best will in the world, what is happening in your own little corner of California does not reflect what's happening everywhere else. It may be the case that the hobby as a whole is suffering a decline *in the United States*, but I don't believe the same is true for the rest of the world.

You mention the clubs declining and ageing membership, and make the assumption that the hobby is therefore dying because you can't attract young people. A number of thing occur to me regarding this. One is that clubs of any sort, in any hobby, come and go. Their numbers rise and fall, individual clubs form and are disbanded, but the hobby itself continues. If it comes to that, model railroading as a hobby must have predated the existence of clubs, so it should be able to continue without them. Clubs are just gatherings of people who are transient to one degree or another, they aren't institutions set in stone.

I'd suggest that a lot of the things people once joined clubs for are now available through other means, the internet being the main one. People once joined clubs to get advice, guidance and knowledge, all of which may now be had from forums and newsgroups like this. Likewise, they once joined to meet like-minded fellow modellers, and for companionship. Again, these can equally well be had from the 'net.

And it must be said that for many people, visiting or attempting to join a club can be intimidating, not every modeller is blessed with an abundance of people skills, are they?

My own experience is the polar opposite of yours. The local club has, in recent years, moved into larger and better premises, and gone from being tenants to owners. Their membership has increased, and much of that has been made up of younger people. They've doubled the size of their existing N scale layout, and started building a massive new HO layout of considerable complexity and sophistication.

Exhibitions have increased in number, and the size of them has increased as well. New manufacturers have entered the market, and the quality of models available has constantly improved. New modelling magazines have been published. To me, these are not indicators of a hobby in terminal decline.

I reckon you, along with many others, place far too much emphasis on clubs - and local hobby shops - as an indicator of the state of the hobby. I'm 48, have been modelling since I was about 10, and I've

*never* once belonged to a club, nor had the luxury of a well stocked LHS nearby. Neither has been an obstacle to my participation in or enjoyment of model railroading. I'd say things are getting better, not worse.

So I see your view as one where you equate change with inevitable decline, whereas I see change as no more than that, change. I can't agree with your pessimistic outlook for the future.

All the best,

Mark.

Hi!

Z scale. 1:220. Not readily available in hobby shops. Not many people model in that scale.

Go to

and do an advanced search on Z.

They sell an N and Z catalog that many hobby shops have. $10

Other manuafacturers are

Faller Busch BLMA Models BRAWA kibri marklin Micro-Trains HEICO MODELL MICRON ART Preiser (best selection of people) Noch Vollmer

They may all have websites

IMO, you're not going to find anything in 240 scale. That's into the range of big plane and ship modeling.

Hope this helps Acornman dgw

(what's nuclear power in NZ for that matter?)

What do you mean by highs and lows?

Wolf: Do you have any data for us to back up your opinion that the U.S. ranks well below other industrial nations on some of "quality of life" issues, and is a 3rd world country on infant mortality and income distribution?

I have to assume you are a socialist, from your views and location. Can you explain why for every U.S. citizen that moves to another country, about a bazillion move here? May I suggest that what the U.S needs is 4 times less government, which would result in 4 times more freedom. Of course, compared to Canada, I guess it looks like we have way too much freedom already, like a constitution that says human beings have a right to defend themselves with firearms? BTW, we already have income (re)distribution on a grande scale....that's where the government takes a big chunk of your hard earned money under threat of death and gives it to lazy bums in cash and free benefits. It's where we are forced to pay about $2000 / year to the public school system so those "professional" union thug teachers can start right out of college making $40/hr with the best benefit packages on Earth at no cost to them and a garanteed job for life, with full retirement benefits at

55........then move up the pay scale to $80-120 / hr just because they decided to hang around year after year. Believe me, it doesn't take an Einstein to get a Bachelors in Education and teach 3rd graders, or 12th graders for that mater. Turning to the private sector, where money can't be raised out of thin air by fiat, backed up by para-military organizations..............where I work, 22 year old new Bachelor level Engineers and Computer Science majors are getting $20-25/hour in large hi-tech companies, they have to contribute a couple of thousand a year out of pocket torwards their benefits and they have no retirement plan. Why did they take the much harder formal educational path and yet get half the pay? Solely because they aren't Government socialist union members who hold little kids educations hostage by striking. It's call socialism. Some places it's called communism......same thing.

Something we don't allow here due to it's long term negative effect on the World's environment.

Regards, Greg.P.

High end incomes and low end incomes. Big money and no money.